MLB:  June 12 Rays at OriolesIn a move that is a surprise to almost nobody, Joe Maddon is going to become the manager of the Cubs according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com.

What is surprising is that the Cubs and Maddon couldn’t wait 24 hours until after the World Series to finalize the deal, something that is going to draw the ire of Bud Selig in the hours before the final game of his tenure as commissioner.

Selig has one rule for other teams during the World Series: No major announcements. And yes, this is a leak and the Cubs and Maddon were going to announce tomorrow. But they had to know this would leak.

Maddon wanted the Cubs and the Cubs wanted Maddon. Instead of doing the right thing and being respectful, both sides did the selfish thing.

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25 Comments

  1. Dave L says:

    Cork what do you think the Cubs would have given up to get Maddon if AF chose to trade him once he knew HE would go and the dominoes would begin to fall?

    I think something nice since they are about to make him a top 5 paid manager in MLB. They must have some under 27 guys at positions where the 22-23 yo replacement is a stud slotted to supplant him.

    The Cubs obviously wanted Maddon and Maddon obviously want to mine famously deep vein of the up and coming talent of the Cubs org.

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    • Ted Sheckler says:

      Dave L, I usually agree with your take on things, but assuming Maddon didn't have a no trade clause, why would AF want to screw him over like that? They are supposed to be good friends. There's no way Maddon would prefer being traded to becoming a free agent. He would have less leverage negotiating a contract, and it would weaken his future franchise. And AF would have to delay telling the Dodgers he's accepting their offer until after he traded Maddon. Once he told the Dodgers he was taking their offer, Maddon wouldn't be tradable because of his opt out clause. What if the Dodgers changed their mind/offer after AF traded Maddon? It doesn't seem AF was going to trade Maddon if he had stayed with the Rays. So he'd then be stuck looking for a new manager all because he wanted to throw Silverman and Sternberg a bone on the way out the door. And they may not even have seen it as a bone anyway. They might have really wanted and expected to keep Maddon. In which case, they wouldn't have signed off on the trade anyway.

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      • Dave L says:

        Thanks for engaging this issue.

        Everybody is "tradable" who lacks a no trade clause. If Joe had a no trade clause then this is all naval gazing. I don't know that.

        Lets assume he didnt. If someone can prove this please do.

        The 'he's his pal' stuff is way too much. AF should not view Maddon any differently than he would a player. He knew the Rays had ZERO chance of signing him long term as he tried and failed. They were miles apart. So after next season he would walk.

        So we have one season of Maddon to milk. What are the realistic chances of the Rays winning the WS next year? Less than they were when they traded Price, less than Shields, Garza etc.

        So his system was maximizing the value of trade-able assets that were unsignable long term for multiple young cheap players to keep the pipeline of young cheap full.

        Its not like the Dodgers showed up one day out of the blue and he was gone the next. This is a long slow process and he knew he had an out for months at least. He knew Maddon's clause, he's the GM for Gods sake. He knew Maddon could choose being one of the highest paid Managers in MLB for a long term deal vs Lame duck Rays manager coming off a horrible season for one year.

        Andrew KNEW Joe would follow him out the door. He knew it surely as he knew the sun would rise tomorrow.

        I bet AF had offers or at least feelers on the table for Joe the day he went to LA. They may not have been blockbusters I am not saying that and never had.

        So your suggestion implies that he said Hey Joe I could get something for u but......

        Trading Joe would not be 'screwing' him. No more than trading Shields or Price or CC was screwing them. Its business and its doing your job. He would still be a free agent next year as scheduled.

        Especially trading to the Cubs. Joe's bargaining power would not have been dimished one iota.They would have signed him to a similar contract and just as quickly. They didn't want him for one year. They WANTED him. Enough to eat the present mangers 2 years ( it think).

        Plus its not like Joe will pull a hammy or lose velocity off his fastball. He's a known quantity and injury proof.

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        • Ted Sheckler says:

          It seems like you are assuming AF was going to trade Joe if AF hadn't left, and that Joe wasn't going to sign an extension if AF stayed. Maybe that's true, but you can't know that for sure. You also can't know AF or Silverman knew Joe couldn't be extended before AF left. Maybe that's true too, but you can't know that for sure. You have a tendency to turn your assumptions into facts when analyzing and debating. While I tend to agree with you more often than not, you have a real problem thinking you know things "as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow" when you literally couldn't possibly unless you were actually that person or knew that person. And if that's the case, just say you are or know that person.

          Everyone has more negotiating power as a free agent than they do when negotiating an extension. That's not a groundbreaking statement in any way. There was no need to try to argue that.

          AF trading anyone from the Rays after he's decided to go to the Dodgers isn't his job anymore. I don't want the Dodgers GM trading Rays commodities. If AF knew he was going to the Dodgers for more than two weeks, then the Dodgers owe the Rays compensation for tampering. Even if AF knew he was leaving before the season ended, he only had two weeks to trade Maddon unless he wanted to do it before the season was over. I'm still not sure why AF would feel obliged to make trades for the Rays if he knew he'd be working for the Dodgers in a few days.

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  2. OriginalTom says:

    There is a good chance Maddon had a no trade clause in his contract. Also I doubt the Cubs would have given up much for 1 year of Maddon.

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    • Dave L says:

      How can we assume Maddon had a no trade clause? Exactly zero percent of the entire MLB media industry including the Rays specific media knew Joe had a 'trade Andy and my contract is null and void' clause.

      I was the biggest AF and JM apologist commentor on RI since I found this place. I laughed at the Shields for Justin silliness because I knew what Friedman always did. Always always always. Trade desirable assets with diminishing short term returns for young cheap talent.

      How was a lame duck Joe going to play out in 2015? Rally around a win one for old Joe?

      The Cubs were willing to eat the managers contract. I think that says alot. We could and should have gotten something. Im not saying alot but why deviate from your program now?

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      • Dave L says:

        * Lose Andy obviously he wasnt traded...

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      • Ted Sheckler says:

        If Maddon had an opt out clause in his contract if Friedman, Silverman, or Sternberg left the team, it's not a stretch to think he might have had a no trade clause. He could void his contract if one guy left the organization. It's not unreasonable to think he might have protected himself against being sent to another city where none of those people work. He might not have had a no trade clause, but it seems weird to think that he would have the opt out clause but not protect himself from getting shipped off to Minnesota.

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        • Dave L says:

          Well I appreciate that you addressed this issue.

          Your arguement is limited to the fact that you are certain JoeMa had a no trade clause therefore you know way much more than I do. If you are unwilling to entertain the possibility that he did not then we have not much more to discuss.

          Cork brought up the possibility of trading Joe a month ago and no one dismissed it as you do now so I didnt think it was a moot topic

          Once you see what Maddon actually signs for and for how long, you will realize that the Rays were never going to sign him no more than when you see Prices or Shields eventual paydirt.

          The Rays payroll wasnt being limited by AF and once he was gone Silverman was going to open the $$$ floodgates and haul Joe back into the boat. Quite the opposite as we will all see.

          The payroll will shrink in all areas. They already have announced it. Our next manager will be the payroll equivalent of a 23 year old 10th round pick just added to the 40 man.

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          • Jim says:

            What you aren’t accepting is that the Rays didn’t want Maddon anymore at any price. We could have easily upped the offer a measly $2 million a year. If the organization wanted him and felt that he was worth it, then the $5 million/year offer would have been made. The fans and FO were tired of his antics and attitude. The smartest man in the room BS was growing old, and Stu and the FO basically felt they “made” Madden successful and not the other way around.

            Joe opted out because his ego had grown too big for this market. He wanted to choose his team. He wanted to access his value on the open market. His trade value was nothing. Like I said before, no team was going to rent a manager for a single year, hoping to sign him to an extension. And Joe wasn’t willing to limit his value accessment to a single team, so even if he didn’t have a no trade clause, he was untradeable and had no real value to the Rays.

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          • Ted Sheckler says:

            The opening of your response... "Your arguement is limited to the fact that you are certain JoeMa had a no trade clause therefore you know way much more than I do."

            To my post which ended with... "He might not have had a no trade clause, but it seems weird to think that he would have the opt out clause but not protect himself from getting shipped off to Minnesota."

            Do you actual read and give any thought to what other people write?

            I have no idea if Joe had a no trade clause, but you seem completely unwilling to even consider that he might have.

            Joe was already the 5th highest paid manager in baseball and the Rays were reportedly offering to make him the 3rd or 4th highest paid manager. It's not unreasonable to think Joe might be cool with making pretty much the same as Terry Francona and a little more than Buck Showalter.

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          • Dave L says:

            Yes your second clause simply was buttressing your claim. I am not arguing that I am certain he wasnt protected but if he wasn't then....

            What if he gets $5M or more?

            Yes thats while although its 'only' $2M (or 3) it is also DOUBLE what the Rays were offering. Teams slot a manager just as they do a roster player and thats way above his slot value range in thier minds.

            No one can be reasonably expected to take half. Then there is the length to consider.

            Once is contract is announced soon we shall see wont we?

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          • Ted Sheckler says:

            Dave L, I'm not arguing that Joe wouldn't prefer or get 5 million per year. I'm arguing against your idea that AF/Silverman have absolutely known for a long time that he wouldn't take 3 million. Only one manager was making 5 million. It's perfectly reasonable for AF/Silverman to think Joe might stick around for more money than every manager not named Scioscia, Girardi, or Francona. Either the Cubs talked to Joe before he opted out, which would be tampering, or Joe took a big risk that a team who wasn't currently looking for a new manager would can their guy to make him the co-highest paid manager in baseball. I can't be sure, but my money is on Joe knew what the Cubs would give him before he opted out.

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          • Dave L says:

            Ok Ted thats what I was after thanks.

            So now we have the two possible opposite competing arguments why my theory of the Rays never ever being able to re-sign JoeMa under any circumstances and therefore should have (if contracturally allowable Ted of course) been moved for something in return.

            The first advanced by Jim is that the Rays never tried and didnt even want Joe back. Maybe he believes this and also thinks the earth is flat. All I can say is.... its spherical.

            The second advanced by Ted and most of the Rays faithful is that heck, Maddon could have been re-upped to a reasonable mortal number.

            Well we have learned that JoeMa WAS reading all the press clippings all along and Andy knew it. Hell Andrew had the same mindset. Pro sports is one of the tiniest industries on earth with only 30 openings for each position. The way each member of these rarefied guilds ultimately wants to be petted and stroked is not by accolades but by $$$.

            Those of you who were shocked like Ted that JoeMa (like Andrew F) after being described over and over for years as Genius, Best Manager, Innovator...etc actually yearned to be the top paid skipper on earth--- found out that he is indeed human.

            Maddon wants to be the rewarded as the best (read highest paid) manager in MLB--- can you blame him?

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          • Ted Sheckler says:

            I don't blame either one of them. But I don't think Joe is the best manager in baseball and I don't think AF is the best GM in baseball. I think they are both very good, but not the best. They are getting paid like they are though, so good for them.

            I expected the Cubs to be in the playoffs within the next two years whether they had Joe or not based on their plethora of high end hitting prospects and ability to spend on FA pitchers, so if he was going to leave the Rays, he's going to the perfect place to make himself look good.

            I also fully expected the Dodgers to be in the playoffs for at least the next half decade whether they had AF or not based on their current talent, high end prospects, and money. So if he was going to leave the Rays, he's going to the perfect place for a GM.

            They are both getting paid like they are the best, and in much better situations than they were with the Rays. I'm not shocked at all that they decided to take that.

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  3. Woodrow744 says:

    He'd better bring his Elmer Fudd hat when he plays us. Montreal is still chilly in April!

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  4. Adam says:

    But off topic Cork, but tonight had a few Rays minor leaguers make their debuts for Brisbane Bandits down here in ABL Opening Day.
    Best of the bunch was Johnny Field going 2-3 with a walk.
    Box score:
    ht tp://web.theabl.com.au/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2014_10_30_adewin_briwin_1&t=g_box&sid=t4065

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  5. Gus says:

    Montoya makes $85K in Durham. He'd treasure the job. And that is where we are as a franchise. Come watch young and hungry guys on their way up to cash out in the big markets. Like the Premier League -- and we are Burnley.

    I can't blame Maddon for taking the money.I have enjoyed his leadership and wanted him to stay. The Rays, as in every case except for Andrew's idiotic spending spree of 2014 off-season, were flat out cheap. I CAN blame him (and his agent) if he were negotiating while under contract last week; that is bad form, bad karma (his opt out clause did not permit him to negotiate with other teams and the Rays denyed his request to shop himself). It is also bad form to shop youself when a guy one year into his dream job with the Cubs, with a great farm system and Agent Nero and Maddon come in and take his job. His comments on his (first ever) visit to Wrigley may now be viewed in a different light. He was campaigning for it. He has got his money, but I don't think he'll have long-term success with that kind of karma.

    If he really wanted the Cubs job, he should have finished his contract and hoped the Cubs struggled next year. But they won't and he and his agent know that. So they went after it now, no matter the collateral damage. I don't think they'll be retiring #70 anytime soon given this messy of an exit.

    It just seems very unlike Maddon, unlike the feel-good, respect the process, respect the lifers in the game ethos he would typically espouse.

    But this may be the kick in the pants the Rays need as an organization. They had not adjusted to the the changes in the game the last couple of years, giving up on offense entirely and committing to older players. They still have a great pitching staff, a rock at 3B and an outfield that could be really good (unless they dump them all).

    Again, my sympathy goes out to the poor folks who sell season tickets for the Rays -- the toughest job in sports. Every October there is another bomb for them to dance around ("vaporize" "Montreal" "cutting payroll"), and the negative noise in the system seems to get worse and worse.

    Just glad Zimmer is not around to see this. I don't think the notion of Maddon quitting and immediately leaving town, driving west in his motorhome, changing his cell phone, ditching his restaurant partner and coniving to get the Cubs job would go over very well. He'd also tell Maddon how much easier it is to win in the Trop than it is in Wrigley . . .

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  6. Dave L says:

    On the heels of Friedman signing the richest Executive contract in MLB history, it begs the question of whether or not Maddon will set the Managerial compensation record.

    I think yes.

    Since these days a GM is seen as more instrumental in contributing to winning than the skipper, Maddon won't get Friedman money.

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    • Gus says:

      He will get the $5M, putting him as the highest paid in the game, and $2-3M more than the Rays were willing to give him. I do think he will come to appreciate the freedom he was given by management and the Tampa Bay fanbase.

      Whether managers are worth it or not, I'd say in most markets they are not. But in the Tampa Bay market where you need a Flaming Optimist just to get out of bed in the morning because of the odds seemingly being stacked against you (see the struggles just to do the pre-game show by Pinella, McCrae and Rothschild, each a half-empty guy), I'd submit Maddon was much more valuable to Tampa Bay than anywhere else. People are coming to Wrigley no matter what. Will need a positive approach from the next manager as well. Manager Crankypants is just going to get beaten down by all of the negative sentiments and policies of management.

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    • Dave says:

      Too bad the Rays aren't as good at baseball as they are hyping the front office.

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  7. ed says:

    hmmm, strange maddon has been called the best manager in baseball, oh or one of the best, last night the giants just won thier 3rd ws in 5 years, I know they spend more, but how many ws has joe won, sorry just a little cranky after what this off season has produced so far.

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  8. Dave L says:

    Kenny Bowtie seems to think the Rays may get some minor compensation from the Cubs..

    Must have been after listening to Stu vent to him in private.

    I think he was aware the Friedman move was inevitable since thats his deal to make personally but was taken aback with the domino effect or at least the instantaneous nature of it.

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  9. LaneMeyer says:

    What happened to the Selig rule? As soon as they fired Renteria, they were required to submit a list of candidates for their managerial job to the commissioner's office which included one or more minority candidates. Theoretically, MLB could void Maddon's new contract, fine or otherwise punish the Cubs (draft picks). I have not heard a word of this mentioned in the media yet.

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  10. mep says:

    The Rays FO seemed to have the "don't let the screen door hit you on the way out" sort of response. It seems to have been wanted by both sides. Why had a lame duck, unhappy, manager? Would this have translated into a horrible 2015 season? Maybe. Time for new attitude and new blood. Enough of Merlot Joe's RV, T shirts, sakes, penguins, medicine man etc. How about a real manager with enthusiasm and better outlook?

    Davey Martinez is often as a possible heir apparent as the next Rays manager but so many teams have passed him up for manager in the past several years. Why? He can't have slept with all of the team's boss's wives. Why not Charlie Montoyo? He truly seems to have the Midas touch of turning kids into MLB ready players. Durham Bulls won another award for attendance this year and best MiLB team. Maybe that enthusiasm would transfer to the Rays. Many of the Rays players already know him.

    Kevin Kiermiaer is up for Gold Glove on ESPN tonight.

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