USATSI_7966356_154511044_lowresThe GBT – The Good, The Bad and The Telling sandwich, where The Bad is nice and lean and the The Telling is ripe.

Pirates 8, RAYS 1 (boxscore)

THE GOOD: Cesar Ramos. Ramos did a great job saving the rest of the bullpen, retiring all 7 batters he faced, including 4 strikeouts. In June, Ramos has allowed just 1 run in 9.2 innings with 10 Ks and 1 walk.

THE BAD: Can’t score, can’t win. The Rays have now been held to less than 2 runs in 21 games this year, second only to the Padres, and they have a pitcher that bats every night. What’s worse is that there have been more games this year in which I knew the game was over in the 5th inning than the last 6 years combined. It’s pretty depressing…Alex Cobb. Cobb has now given up 8 runs in the first inning of his 10 starts this season. That can’t keep happening, not with this offense. They have enough pressure going to the plate. The Pirates also exposed Cobb on the basepaths. The Pirates were 4-4 stealing bases and we know how good Ryan Hanigan’s arm is.

THE TELLING: Jerry Sands went on the DL yesterday with a strained wrist tendon and Cole Figueroa will join the team today. Apparently surgery is a possibility in which case he will miss considerably more than 2 weeks…Jeremy Hellickson is still a candidate to start one of the games on Friday in Baltimore…In their last 27, the Rays are 3-17 against teams not named the Astros…The Rays are now 31-47, 4.5 games behind the Red Sox for 4th in the East.


  • Boy, the Rays really blew the first pick of the 2008 draft. Just about every other player taken in the top 20 has been a better big leaguer. [@RaysIndex]
  • I’m still not sure what to think about the Bucs’ new helmet now that is being worn in training camp. [JoeBucsFan]
  • DOWN ON THE FARM [boxscores] Mike Montgomery gave up 1 run in 5 innings in Durham’s 7-4 loss. Hak-Ju Lee went 1-5 and Mikie Mahtook was 0-3 with a walk…Cameron Seitzer hit his 6th home run in Montgomery’s 7-5 win…Blake Snell gave up 8 runs in just 2.1 innings for Charlotte. Catcher Maxx Tissenbaum, who homered in 3 of the previous 4 games, went 0-4 with 2 passed balls…Casey Gillaspie was 1-4 with a double and 3 strikouts. He is now 6-40 with 18 strikeouts and 1 walk.

Raymond took down a pirate and then flashed the crowd.





  1. OriginalTom says:

    On the top 20 list from the 2008 draft. If you compare Beckham to the 5 other high school players drafted he does not look so bad. Out of those 6 the only 2 who have been productive are Hosmer and Lawrie.

  2. ken says:

    It's pretty sad when all we have to comment on is whether or not the Rays screwed up 6 years ago on the #1 draft choice. What about the drafts that followed? Has anyone looked at the stats of our minor league clubs lately? Outside of Mahtook (a KK clone) there is not one projectible ML starter, and Mahtook might be a stretch. It was a nice ride but it has come to an end. Unless the braintrust trade multiple players between now and July 31st and restock with prospects who can play in the show we are a last place team for the foreseeable future.

  3. Dave L says:

    I know the Cards have drafted exceptionally well, but I don't know if many other teams have.

    Just about every other team you could pick a specific year and say they were brain dead picks

    What percentage of MLB rosters are conventionally drafted players these days anyway? We are only talking about players from US High schools and colleges basically so the overall percentage diminishes every year as the influx of foriegn born players increases. I'd guess the elite talent is less than 50% drafted.

    The celebrated A's have 4 drafted players on the 40 man for example.

    Here is our overall 2014 list of rostered players who we drafted:


    We drafted a Solid 4/5s a rotation when healthy who else did that? Cards maybe/ Plus we have no access to young foriegn studs who can negate entire draft years with the signing of a massive check.

    Any analysis that claims we did poorly has to address it in terms of poorly as opposed to who? Has anyone actually analyzed that with some methodology?

    • ken says:

      Note that only three position players are on your list. Only one is a proven everyday player. Jennings has under performed since getting here, actually he's digressed. K2, hopefully will become a fixture, Ellsbury had similar Milb stats. Look at the rosters of the Braves, Pirates, Cards, Twins, and Astro's as examples and that's just off the top of my head. Also consider draft picks that have moved on via trade and are producers for other teams. Our minors are rated between 26 and 29 by the various MLB analysts for a reason. Even our highly regarded trades are now showing the lack of baseball acumen by the front office. Garza=What? Shields=What? Torres=Hope, if Andriese, Lollis and Boxburger develop. Comp picks for Crawford and Upton=What?
      From 08 to 13 we rode a horse that competed due to great pitching, great defense, timely hitting and more than a bit of luck. The league has caught up to us and used those very same Maddon strategies against us. As a fellow fan said to me during the game on Sunday, we have no "da man's" on our roster. No Papi's, no Rameriz's, no Trout's, no McCutcheon's, nobody. Teams have figured out that scoring early and pitching around our few capable bats ensures a win. This team will be in Montreal by 2018. Enjoy their ineptitude while you can. Stewie will certainly enjoy the $$'s he's going to make agreeing to the move.

      • OriginalTom says:

        Garza< Archer, Fuld, , Guyer, Lee- The Rays won that del by a mile.

        Shields + Davis= Myers, Odorizzi, Montgomery, and Leonard. The deal may be in KC's favor at the moment but will tip in the Ray's favor pretty quickly.

        • ken says:

          Archer 4-4, Fuld gone. Garza now leading the Brew crew staff into first place. Lee, batting > .225, Guyer 29 and never healthy. Don't see that as a win. Shields 22-12 as a Royal, and a leader in the clubhouse. Davis, another key part of the Royals resurgence. Us, Myers 1/2 a decent season, Ordo a 5 starter with little upside unless he develops and out pitch, Leonard fluff and Montgomery?, first good season in the minors. Maybe Montoya and Allen should move south. Plus, if the Royals give Shields the qualifying offer most feel they will, they get a comp pick if they don't resign him. I fail to see the magic in these moves. We are a last place, worst in the majors team. How anyone can see Friedman's moves as positive bewilders me. 2008 was the only strong year this club has had. 2 of the other post season spots were gained more from luck and choking by others than brilliant roster and field management by the beloved braintrust. We are the only MLB franchise whose fans settle for mediocrity.

          • OriginalTom says:

            Garza is 4-5 with a 4.01 ERA, Archer is 4-4 with a 3.14 ERA. Garza is 29-28 since leaving the Rays. Archer is also younger and has a better contract. I would see Archer for Garza as a huge win without the other players involved. As far as the others, Fuld is gone but he did give us 3 decent seasons (Garza is also gone from the Cubs). It remains to be seen how Guyer and Lee will turn out but Guyer is playing well at the moment and Lee is still young enough to develop.

            As far as Myers, sure he has only given us 1/2 a decent season SO FAR. Remember he is under team control 2014-2018. I would rather have Myers 2013-2018 than Shields 2013-2014 plus a draft pick. Ordorizzi, maybe you are correct and he will never be better than a 5th starter only time will tell.

            If making the playoffs 4 out of 6 years is mediocrity than sign me up for mediocrity. I am sure there are fans of plenty of other teams who would take that.

          • Drew says:

            Viewing the Matt Garza trade as not "a win" is pretty foolish. Probably every team in the majors would rather have Chris Archer over Matt Garza right now, without even taking into account their respective contracts. Throw in all the other players we got in that deal (who could still provide value) and it is STILL a robbery, and always will be.

          • Dave L says:

            You are trying to argue the Garza and Shields trades were net losses?


            Quoting Garzas numbers in 2013 or 14 is irrelevant, we couldn't have afforded him past 2012 or Shields past 2014.

            I know you are bitter for 2014 being a lost season, but arguing these were bad trades is patently absurd at the very best. I wont even bother to quote the massive salary differences in this apples vs diamonds debate.

            I argued at the outset of 2013 that the Shields trade would be a net loss for 2013-14 but is gold thereafter. Same with the Garza trade. Its already proven a net plus in the out years.

      • Dave L says:

        I already gave you the Cards in my original argument as far as drafts goes, then you quote a bunch of hind teat 2008 to 13 teams that of course had better slots.

        Our Farm is 25+ worst because thats where we have been slotted for 5 years plus we just promoted our best talent recently.

        Price/Zobrist will restock Durham and the Rays going forward.

        • ken says:

          Ah yes Dave, how many of those promoted this year were Rays draft picks? 1, K2 and we drafted him in round 20 something. The rest were from other teams. Sands, Lueke, Figuroa, Boxburger, Ordo, all free agents or trade fodder. Mercy me, I laugh at you're continual ability to craft an argument that we are on the cusp of winning another World Series. Oh wait, we'd have to win a play-off series first. Where's O'Connor, Seitzer, Sale, Maile, Stanek, Ames, Shaffer, Brett, Hager, Florio, Toles....need I go on?

          • Dave L says:

            Ken your arguments keep flashing back and forth my head is spinning! Are we arguing bad drafts or bad farm system? Are the Rays the only club held to the standard of all farm promotions must be draft picks?

            Show me the clubs, besides the Cards I gave you that from the opening statement, that made the Rays repeatedly look like fools on the last 8 draft days.

            Oh sorry.

            You can't

  4. Gus says:

    I was talking to one of the high school coaches of a 2014 Rays draftee two weekends ago. What was interesting to me was that this coach said the Rays locked onto the kid early, saw him every time he pitched this spring (calling to make sure the morning of every game) and then shocked the kid when they picked him 4-5 rounds higher than where everybody else thought he was going (which changed his college-pro evaluation).

    I hope the kid makes it and the Rays go on to look like geniuses. But it is evidence that they have their own line of thinking in the draft. Just hasn't worked out well lately.

    • ken says:

      The Rays line of thinking is similar here to how they construct a MLB roster. They are, and will always be, a Dollar store team. They sign players in the draft to under slot deals, players far down the line by respected Guru's, and they construct their roster with players that they hope will have that ONE great season. Case in point: Jays have Navarro, who Maddon wanted gone. A's have Jaso, who Maddon wanted gone. Both teams in first while we have Molina, who Maddon would put in the Hall of Fame. All of you can continue to find fault with those of us who point out the errors your beloved front office has made. Look at the standings. Look at the Rays minor league system. Taylor Motter? 4 out of six playoff years is an anomaly. Sternburg and company have made beacoup money these last 6 years on the backs of the faithful. And they'll sell to the highest bidder after next year's last place finish.

      • Dave L says:

        Of course we are a dollar store team.

        We have dollar store money thats why.

        Surprise Surprise Surprise!

        But you are so right Jaso and Navarro are the reason their teams are in first and Molina is why we are in last. I will concede that to your impeccable 20/20 hindsight.

        Your examples of the weakest offensive/highest defensive position in the order being the difference speak to the weakness of your arguments of problems of 2014 and what caused the collapse.

        • ken says:

          No, Jaso and Navarro are not the sole reason their teams are in 1st place, but are great examples of why the Rays are in last place. Both had issues with Maddon and his "process" philosophy. We don't have dollar store money Dave. We turn a profit every year, and the fans pay for it. How in the world can you defend a front office that had 10 of the first 79 draft picks in 2010 with none of them above AA presently. We do not have an "A" rated prospect in the minors as rated by SB nation. I already gave you clubs who have drafted better than us. Stop trying to make excuses for a dying franchise. Suck it up and face it, we suck and will suck until baseball men rather than stock brokers and tent show revialist managers run the franchise.


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