Curt Schilling took to his Twitter account and not surprisingly said something stupid (via HardballTalk)…

Best modern day hitter, Manny RH Barry LH when they cheated, Gonzo LH Pujols RH of non cheaters

It is actually quite amazing how many dumb things Schilling can say in 140 characters or less. Manny cheated. Bonds cheated. Yes. But even if we drop Bonds from consideration, there are still 50 left-handed batters in recent decades that are better than Luis Gonzalez. Not to mention Gonzalez is consistently at the top of many lists of players that are suspected users of Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs).

But most importantly, by saying Manny Ramirez “cheated,” Captain Blowhard is basically saying that the 2004 and 2007 Red Sox cheated their way to two World Series titles. Two teams that Schilling played for.

We doubt Schilling wants those two titles tainted on his already weak Hall-of-Fame application.



  1. christopher says:


  2. Charles says:

    I dunno, I don't think Schilling's wrong about calling Manny a cheater. He cheated, got caught, that makes him a cheater. It doesn't mean he can't play clean from here on out, but the label fits.

    As for the Hall of Fame, I already think the Hall of Fame voting is stupid based on how Jeff Bagwell, without an iota of proof or even a name in a report, was left out of the hall because of teammates' use of PEDs making him "guilty by association". If we're going to start using cheating teammates as criteria to weaken someone's HoF credentials (which are already pretty weak in Schilling's case, I agree), then the Hall of Fame is nothing more than an irrelevant monument to personal biases. I can't support Schilling not getting in because Manny cheated any more than i can support Bagwell not getting in because Ken Caminiti cheated. It makes no sense to me (and in fact makes me pretty angry at the idiot sportswriter voters who use such ridiculous "criteria")

  3. Abe says:

    Why some professional athletes get mixed up in conversations like these I will never understand.

    I'm a fan of both Curt Shilling and Many Ramirez, but mostly for what they do off the field.

    Just let it go Curt. 🙂

  4. Joe says:

    Whatever, Schilling has tried to stay in the news however he can since he retired. I don't care much about what he says.

    Speaking of Manny, he is taking the day off with S-Rod at 2B, Zobrist in RF and Joyce at DH. I would of went with Joyce in RF, Zobrist at 1B and Manny at DH but I guess Maddon wants to get Dan as much time as possible at 1B before the season. Speaking of, how about we start letting the guys get 4 AB's instead of 3? It's getting old seeing Ray Olmedo and his .048 AVG come in like the 6th.

  5. Gus says:

    Manny is a cheater; we always suspected he was when the D-Rays (and everybody else) couldn't get him out in Boston with Ortiz (who is also fairly suspect) and LA. Just because the Rays signed him doesn't change that fact and should make us all skeptical that (a) he's not cheating now, and thus he'll hit like a 38 year old power guy without his muscle (and vision) juice may be expected to hit or (b) he's cheating again and he'll get popped for a 100 game suspension. The probability that (c) he is clean and he will be productive -- seems pretty remote. The more likely answer is (d) he is cheating again but has better masking agents and will show signs of life in this contract year, but from the start I've never been a fan of this signing. PED guys are bad for your organization long-term.

    Schilling is correct and thus his Boston world series titles are extremely tainted as the best player turned out to be a PED cheat, and several of his Boston teammates had extremely suspicious careers along the way (Ortiz, Nomar). Funny that Manny is following the Schilling "dream" of finishing his career with the Rays (albeit at a much lower price tag than Schilling was thinking about).

    • Derek says:

      Steroids didn't make him a good hitter. If someone can't hit, no substance on earth will change that. For steroids to have any success at all, he needed to be very dedicated to his sport and his training, but he was caught taking a substance that is directly related to the cycling of steroids, and you could be right about the masking agents, but at the end of the day, I'm okay with that.

      Let's not forget that the Yanks have three guys who are over 35 and will be playing everyday. Expecting a 38 year old, who is one of the hardest workers in the game, to not be able to hit without his "juice" is not giving him enough credit. We are not asking a 36 year old (Jeter) to play one of the hardest positions on the diamond. We are asking a hitter to hit. Jim Thome did it last year at 39.

      Also, assuming that Manny is the only player on this team to use steroids is probably wrong. I know several people that do it for fun, basically, because being big doesn't effect their work. If your employment depended on you being the best player out there, all the way up to the majors, then you're going to be tempted to take something that gives you that extra edge. Your name could be Reid Brignac, chilling in the low minors, pegged as all glove and no bat. Your name could be Matt Joyce, and feel like you need to recover from an injury faster. Your name could be Desmond Jennings, and you're worried about falling off the map, because you've lost all your power. Your name could be Evan Longoria, and you weren't eve drafted out of high school. You had to go to a community college, and went from a nobody to a first rounder in about a year. I'd like to make it clear that I'm not speculating that any of these guys have ever taken anything, but that it is more rampant than we assume.

      • Gus says:

        1. Taking PEDs has been against the rules in baseball since 1971 (read p. 1 of the Mitchell Report). Manny was cheating and was caught. Just because some others were doing it doesn't make him not a cheater.

        2. Obviously, steroids won't turn a non-baseball player into an MLB star, but it will take a declining baseball player and turn him back into a star (or in the case of Roger Clemens, make him better than he ever was without the steroids).

        3. The most underrated effects of PEDs is on vision and recovery from workouts and games. These are particulary relevant to aging sluggers like Manny.

        4. "The everybody is still doing it argument" seems to go against the weight of the overall evidence that shows pitching returning and power declining vastly. Since improved testing and the Mitchell Report, there is at lease some comfort for the player battling to keep his job that the guy trying to take his job (or trying to beat his team) isn't juicing with impunity.

        5. If your friends are taking PEDs without a prescription, that is against the law and extremely hazardous to their health. I don't want my health insurance rates driven up by their illegal decisions. At a base level, this is why sports needs to try to contain PEDs. It may be fun to watch a guy growing a tail swinging for the fences, but it is bad for our overall public health and our tax and insurance rates. (Care for things like Jason Giambi's intestinal parasite operation is very expensive)

        6. Finally, Manny is a bad and unreliable guy. He may behave himself for the Rays, but his past conduct (roughing up a 60 year old employee, quitting on his teammates in Boston and LA) combined with his being on PED probabtion makes him a dubious signing in my book.

        • Derek says:

          Like I said in my first post, I have no problem with him being a cheater. Everyone cheats. Ever single person has cheated, don't pass judgement on someone for doing something you have done.

          It does more for recovery that it does for vision, let's just say that nobody takes it for vision, it's just a bonus.

          Power declining vastly? I disagree with this, so does Jose Bautista.

          The rise of pitching has nothing to do with the decline of hitting. The game still has a ton on premier hitters ( Pujols, Hamilton, Longoria, Voto, Cabrera, Zimmerman, Tulo, Hanley Ramirez. I could go on forever) it has to do with the skill sets teams are looking for. They want guys like the ones I listed above, who can play at an elite level on defense and are elite at the plate. These guys want to keep their body weight down, so that they still have the range to play center field, third base, and short stop, these are positions can't be played by big bulky guys.

          The skill sets of Manny and Ortiz are on their way out. This is why Manny is making 2 million this year, not because he quit (which you couldn't prove if I asked you to) but because his skill set is not worth much more. Guys like Crawford make the big bucks these days.

          Let's look at the doubles leaders from last year: Beltre, Delmon Young, Werth, Longo, and Cabrera. What's the common theme there, Outside of two of them scoring huge contracts this winter? Elite defense.

          The lack of home runs is the evolution of the game, both pitching and defense.

          We won't get into the dangers of steroids, mainly because I doubt you know enough.

          • Gus says:

            Educate me on how they great steroids are for you and I'll introduce you to the Dead Wrestler of the Week feature on Deadspin, genius.

          • Derek says:

            After everything I said, this is what you bite on?

            You show me a few wrestlers whose deaths were BLAMED on steroids, and I'll show you hundreds, no, thousands of people you use them on a daily basis, and live normal, everyday lives. I don't consider a wrestler to be the average user. All drugs can be abused, and clearly they abuse them. Steroids have been around since the 1950's, just imagine how many people have taken them. But a few dead wrestlers on a blog means they are harmful? It's simple really, "this guy killed himself and his family. He was using steroids, so that means he killed them because of the steroids." That's their logic right there.

            Listen, I'm not going to pimp steroids, because they are illegal, and I refuse to bring that topic to this blog. I made several good points, this was the last one you should have addressed.

          • Gus says:

            Lack of HR has nothing to with evolution of the game and everything to do with MLB at least trying to curb the steroid users and, I think, a tipping point where it was no longer required use to be an MLB player at a power position to use. "Steroid Sluggers" were an evolution (or an epidemic) begining more or less with the Oakland A's of 1988. Offensive totals also spiked with two expansions (as they typically have done in every other expansion year). And while I'm sure you can point to other contributing factors, I don't think you'd be seeing defense emphasized if 15-20 guys were hitting 45 HRs a year.

            2010 Stats:

            •Home runs = 1.90 per game, the lowest since 1.78 in 1993.
            •Runs scored = 8.77 per game, the lowest since 8.23 in 1992.
            •Hits = 17.51 per game, the lowest since 17.35 in 1992.
            •Average = .257, the lowest since .256 in 1992.
            •ERA = 4.07, the lowest since 3.74 in 1992.

            Sometimes it is so obvious, but if you think those numbers are coming back because some teams started emphasizing defense and pitching, I think that flies in the face of what we've all seen in the games themselves.

          • Derek says:

            A good example of this would be Josh Sale. Josh was our first round draft pick of 2010. Josh was pegged as the best all around hitter in the draft. A lot of people had him going in the top ten, closer to the top 5. But poor ole Josh fell to us. Why? Probably because Josh is nothing more than a corner outfielder, already. Now Let's look at our next two picks, Justin O'conner, and Drew Vettleson. Vettleson was another hitter who gained praise for his all around approach but he got picked ten picks after O'conner, who has serious questions about his bat (nobody thinks O'conner will hit, at all) Vettleson, albeit the better hitter, gets picked later, probably because he ends up as a corner outfielder.

            Just look at the draft history from the 80's-00's. Notice how there are less and less outfielders drafted early, and the ones who are taken early are big names. There are a lot less busts, and a lot more all around players like Hambone, Markakis, and Heyward.

            Posting the offensive stats from last year doesn't prove me wrong. I understand that they were low, I'm just not convinced that the reason giving is more than a PR stunt.

            It doesn't even have to apply to the evolution of the sport. Man in general has become more talented. It seems like every four years there is a new sprinter setting a new world record. We jump higher, we run faster, and we throw the ball farther.

            Look at the NFL QBs of today. These guys are no longer just pocket passers. They have evolved, and now need the skills to be able to run from the Suhs and the McCoys.

            It's more or less a combination of both of these things. With all the new scouting tools and the increase in testing, it has changed the game.

  6. Hans says:

    If Shilling was clean and realy didn't know about Manny and some of his teammates' use, I can understand he's mad. His championships means less because of the steroid use on his team. What is his goal tweeting it now? Strange.

    Does anyone know if the Rays management including Maddon said anything about Manny and his use of forbidden drugs?

    Steriods has a lot of side effects, which could be very dangerous. So the use of them, is stupid.

    The MLB started testing from 2003. So they all knew, but did nothing about it.


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