[Update: Vin added his “don’t take this too seriously” tag long after we had added our rebuttal]

We have tried so hard to be good as some sites think all we do around here is bash other Rays’ blogs. But we are being baited…and we are OK with that.

If there is one thing we will never stand for, it is somebody standing up on their tiny soap box and calling Rays fans “dumb”. Especially when it is another Rays fan and even more when that tiny soap box is in the form of a Rays blog. [Ed.note: yes, we do realize that “Vin” is not one of the regular writers at DRays Bay and yes we know it was a “fanpost”. But somebody at DRays Bay thought this garbage was good enough to make it a “featured fanpost” thus giving it front page, above-the-fold status. And besides, in DRays Bay’s own words, they are “One Blog”…Not two. Just one.]

While these past few months have been great, the newfound sense of winning they’ve brought have led me to an unfortunate conclusion: A team’s winning percentage in [sic] directly proportionate to the amount of dumb in it’s fanbase.

We went to Webster’s Vin’s Dictionary to look up the word “dumb”.

dumb [duhm] -adjective

  1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
  2. Fans of the Tampa Bay Rays, especially when the team is doing really, really, well

Well that explains why we left the oven on last night.

Winning means bandwagoners. Bandwagoners are, by nature, extremely shortsighted.

Apparently Vin would rather attend games at the Trop with 8,000 people, all of whom are not shortsighted, but half of whom are asleep, instead of 25,000 screaming fans that might not know the difference between a Jeremy Hellickson and a Mitch Talbot. Let’s take it easy on the “bandwagoners” please. If the Rays don’t get a whole wagon full of bandwagoners, the rest of us won’t have a team to root for in a few years.

The influx of casual fans has led to an overall dip in the knowledge of our farm system. Hellickson is due to jump a level any day now; as are Davis and McGee (although thats debatable), and we have a former first round pick waiting in AAA along with a Mitch Talbot who is flashing some brilliance that definitely warrants attention… You people think Sonny v. Jackson is the fight to watch? Psh. Thats just the undercard. Wait for the Hellickson v. Davis v. McGee v. Niemann v. Talbot free-for-all.

Actually, no. The main event is the 2008 Tampa Bay Rays which means Edwin Jackson and Andy Sonnanstine. The Rays are in first place in the wild card race and nobody in the minors is going to replace Jackson or Sonnanstine unless one gets hurt. Jeff Niemann couldn’t do it in the Spring and now he is battling arm problems again. Talbot is a marginal prospect at best.

Now if we assume that David Price is in the rotation in ’09 [Ed. note: This is hypothetical. We actually think the second half of ’09 is more likely based on the Rays track record with prospects], that will leave one spot. Unless somebody is traded it will be Jackson or Sonnanstine. There is no reason to think Niemann and Talbot are suddenly going to step up. Wade Davis and Jake McGee won’t be ready and Hellickson is still two years away at the earliest.

And if history in baseball has taught us anything, it is that we cannot be certain what these prospects will look like in two years. We cannot be certain how good Jackson and Sonnanstine will be in two years. And we have ZERO idea what the team needs will be in two years.

It is OK if Vin is more concerned with winning in 2010 and 2011, but just because “casual” fans are more concerned with winning in 2008 and 2009 does not automatically make them “dumb”.

Telling a lifelong, diehard Rays fan he sucks for calling for improvement on [Carl Crawford’s] flaws is however, dumb.

Lifelong? Now we feel a little guilty. When we were in 5th grade we called a lot of people “dumb”. And here Vin is clearly upset because somebody criticized him for his comments of Carl Crawford. Do you know who else criticizes people for their opinions? Vin.

Quite frankly we couldn’t stand to read anymore of this nonsense. So if the last sentence of the post says “Just kidding, I don’t really think Rays fans are dumb. I love you guys.”, then we owe Vin an apology.

In the meantime we have petitioned Vin’s Dictionary to change the definition of “dumb” to”:

dumb [duhm] -adjective

1. lacking intelligence or good judgment; stupid; dull-witted.
2. Fans of the Tampa Bay Rays named “Vin” that are given a platform at DRays Bay with which all they can do is bash fellow Rays fans

Chock full of dumb [DRays Bay]



  1. www.tampabaysportsblog.com says:

    Thank god someone got to this! I saw it late last night and my head was spinning so bad I couldn't sit and write anything. I was astounded by the Pot/Kettle irony of the entire thing. I must be the dumbest person in Tampa Bay according to Vin. Nice response guys, I haven't had much time to post lately but I'll try to put something out there after the game tonight or tomorrow morning. This dumb fan has to go park his car at the stadium now so I don't have to fight traffic or parking tonight.

  2. Jake says:

    First off, it's almost a consistent thing that DRays Bay puts fanposts/fanshots on the front page.

    We allow fans to post things, unlike here. It's you, DRG and occasionally your wife. Noone else. Kind of a novel idea, diaries/fanposts.

    Now we posted this because it was a highly commented diary and an easily debatable topic. It didn't represent our opinions, per say.

    Now insulting our "We are one blog" thing, was that really needed???

    Lighten up, noone is perfect when it comes to Rays blogging...last time I checked.

  3. R.J. says:

    He's not on staff, and the reader population recommended his post enough to warrant a bump to the front page.

    So really what you're doing here is criticizing a READER'S OPINION that was placed on the front page through the recommendations of the READER POPULATION.

    Perhaps you should re-title it as "Oh DRaysBay Readers..." or "Oh Rays Fans..." instead.

  4. The Professor says:

    If you guys don't want those fanposts associated with the name "DRays Bay" then you shouldn't put it on the front page with the rest of the regular posts.

    On the front page there is NOTHING to indicate that this is a fanpost. That makes it look like you guys are accepting of what is written and that it is worthy of being under the banner "DRays Bay". The only reason I knew that it was a fanpost was because I know who the writers are.

    Somebody that was coming to your site for the first time, or somebody that does not pay as close attention would think the same thing.

  5. The Professor says:

    ps. it amazes me how defensive you guys get to the point that you assume everything is a shot at you.

    "And besides, in DRays Bay's own words, they are "One Blog"...Not two. Just one."

    that was not making fun of the slogan. it was pointing out that in your own words, everything on the site is "one blog". that you guys dont differentiate between regular posts, fanposts, and comments. the slogan says to me that everything is equal.

  6. michael connell says:

    i actually read this piece of shit and thought it was one of the DRB guys. I am actually less pissed at DRB now because Prof pointed out it was not one of the bloggers.

    still, just because the "reader population recommended his post enough to warrant a bump to the front page" did not mean you had to. there was absolutely nothing there worth reading.

    now if you don't mind. This 'dumb' rays fan has work to do before i go to the game tonight.

  7. Austin says:

    What dumb fans is he talking about? I'm really having a difficult time finding the motivation for this post/fanpost. It seems to me that this post should be reserved for a forum. As for the "the reader population recommended his post enough to warrant a bump to the front page.", I'm hoping RJ got a lot of e-mails and isn't basing this assertion off of the comments from the post (87 last I checked). Most of the comments in the post discuss Gross/Gomes vs. Griffey Jr. or David Price's minor league career (34 of 87 by my count). What? How did this become warranted for the front page of a fairly popular blog?

  8. Anonymous says:

    i do like the community aspect of DRays Bay and it is neat idea to pull fanposts to the main column, but it should be something that is done selectively and RARELY. you can't just throw every other fan post on to the main column.

  9. jameslindsey5505 says:

    this was hilarious. if the FJM guys ever need a sub, they should give you a call.

    as for the article, i had no idea it wasn't one of the writers. i never look at who wrote an article. i could care less. when i am talking to my friends. i always say "did you see what was written on DRays Bay or Rays Index?" I dont say "Did you see what Joe Schmo wrote?"

  10. Dumb Rays Fan says:

    what a d-bag!

  11. Stewey S. says:

    Inside Google Reader, it is REALLY hard to tell who the author is. I read this post this morning and thought "the quality of DRB is really going down hill." So I echo who ever said thanks, Rays Index, for pointing out that this was just one idiot fan.

    Maybe I don't spend enough time at DRB to really get it. Normally I like most of the authors, and am thankful for the knowledge and insight they provide. I think they do a real disservice to themselves sending this sort of trash out in the RSS feed along with their quality items.

  12. Anonymous says:

    My biggest problem with DRaysBay is that R.J. and co come off as condescending, elitist baseball fans if you will.

    With R.J., he knows his baseball, but his grammar is a joke.

    Home run is two words, not one. Do you have spell check, pal?

  13. abbie says:

    thank you for this post:

    if for anything i hate to no end how so many people assume all of these prospects in A and AA are absolutely going to be great major leaguers. the only thing we really can be confident of is hopefully one or two will come through. that is the best thing about having so many. if some fail (and some will) there will be others. in fact i think i read on here yesterday or the day before that Wade Davis, supposedly the best, most polished of the bunch only had 6 or 7 quality starts this year (i might be wrong about the exact number).

    "And we have ZERO idea what the team needs will be in two years"

    sometimes it takes less than 2 years. has everybody forgotten that it was only a little over a year ago when supposedly we had too many outfielders? and now we have Shitske and Gross playing right field.

  14. Blake (usfraysfan at DRB) says:

    Can't we all get along. I don't understand the rift between the two sites, both are my most visited sites daily. Both blogs are great and bring great opinion and info to the table. I mean sure, Vin shouldn't have said 'Dumb.' A better word would have been "Ignorant" or "Uneducated." A lot of bandwagoners are, simply because they haven't been around long enough to know as much about the Rays as other fans have. But at the same time, I don't understand why so many fans at this site are getting so upset. The only reason you should think he is calling you dumb is if you are a bandwagoner, otherwise he wasn't talking about you.

    I enjoy both blogs for what each of you brings to the table and the fact that both of you are well educated in the sport and about the team. We're all rooting for the same thing here and I think Vin's post is being blown out of proportion.

  15. The Professor says:


    we should be embracing the new Rays fans. ALL RAYS BLOGS should. Not alienating them. The Rays need more fans. Not less. And Vin may have been directing his venom at bandwagoners, but he was really calling every Rays fan dumb if they don't know the intricate details of the farm system. There are a lot of Rays fans that have followed the team since the beginning and may be the biggest fans of the team but dont follow the minor league system. there is nothing wrong with that. in fact many would say they are the smart fans and argue it is silly to follow the careers of so many kids so closely when only 8-10 will ever wear a Rays uniform.

    And we think it is ridiculous that DRB endorses that writing. In fact this is not the first time. One of the main writers once wrote a post titled "Tampa Fans Are Morons: 256th Edition".

  16. Anonymous says:

    For the love of St. Pete, Jack - 'noone' is TWO words. 'No one." Isn't noone a character from Caddyshack or something?

  17. David says:

    maybe it's just possible that "the professor" (how original) is a bit jealous that draysbay gets 100's of comments per post, and this site is lucky if they get 10? perhaps, just a little wittle bit jealous that the obviously far inferior seems to be pulling in so many more rays fans??? it's ok, maybe if you weren't such an asshole more people would frequent both sites...

  18. The Professor says:

    "David" (how original)

    100's of comments?

    no thanks. i dont need the same 10 people on this site everyday bitching back and forth about whether or not Hinske is better than Gross. over and over and over. it really gets old.

    believe me. there is absolutely NOTHING at DRB that i am jealous of. which is why i have turned down several offers to join their staff.

    and for the record and i am a Professor of Biology in my day job

  19. David says:

    yes, how horrible. actually having people on your site that are actually interested in the daily goings-on on the team the site happens to be dedicated to covering. it must be so awful for them to have to deal with people constantly talking about how they feel about all these topics, and sometimes rehashing the same topic over and over again.

    oh wait, that's called discussion, and it's called message board quality.

    you keep letting only your opinions be heard, and the same 5 people will continue to ignore them..

    for the record, my name is david...

  20. The Professor says:

    it's called message board quality

    yes it is. and there are already several well-established locations for message board type fodder, including DRB. DRB and RaysBB among others are great for that sort of thing. we are not trying to establish another message board. it is not needed.

    our model is something very different. and we are very happy with what we have created and are not about to change that.

    And we are not about to let somebody call Rays fans "dumb". god forbid somebody stand up against idiots like Vin and DRB for posting that garbage.

  21. sean g says:

    i have read this 5 times and laugh out loud every time.

    David is just a little bitch. Don't let him bug you to much Prof. He has to go to bed soon.

  22. James Lindsey says:

    David, comparing the two sites is like comparing apples and oranges, if you will pardon the cliche.

    DRB is much more opinion driven. RJ does a good job of posting an opinion like "Rays should sign Bonds". opinions generate debate.

    Prof does something completely different which is why the two sites complement each other so well.

    Prof does an amazing job of breaking things down and telling us what happened and what will happen. it is not just his opinion. he presents numbers and he knows how the organization works.

    for example, with Bonds. i remember a couple of posts telling us why the Rays won't. and later he gave us a post showing us how the Rays would differ statistically as a whole. if i am remember correctly there was some projection system like PECOTA that showed the Rays would improve by 3 games with Bonds. And yet never do i remember Prof telling us whether the Rays should or should not sign bonds.

    Prof doesn't burden us with silly fan opinions. he presents the information. A LOT OF INFORMATION. more than you will ever get from the writers at DRB.

    and i agree with Prof that we don't need another message board.

    and just because he doesnt have 100 comments on every post doesnt mean he is not read. go do a technorati search for Rays Index and see how this site is everywhere.

  23. Vinnie says:

    It really wasn't meant to be taken this seriously. I had the day off so I decided to drink a couple of beers and write a little.

    Lighten up.

  24. The Professor says:

    we do some of our best writing when we r drunk. this is "lightened up".this is fun. we love doing this site.

    besides, bc of what we wrote I got your post linked on The Providence Journal website. one of the bigger newspapers that covers the red sox.

    I don't have the link right now but if u can't find it shoot me an email.

    congrats. most bloggers will never get linked at a newspaper.

  25. Why, it's Clark! says:

    The fact is, there isn't a professional sports franchise out there with enough diehard fans to make iit on their support alone (ok, maybe Manchester United). If you aren't drawing enough of the people who don't know the WHIP of every middle reliever on the Princeton roster, you're in deep trouble. In this case, a collectively lower IQ is a sign of good health.


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