Over the years we have received many requests to make RI more discussion friendly by adding a forum and many more have asked for recommendations on where the best places are to discuss the Rays.

Quite frankly, before now we didn’t think a good discussion forum existed for the Rays. Some were too remote and most included way too much commenter-on-commenter violence and snobby attitudes from those that had been there a while.

That all changes now with the introduction of discussion forums by MLB Trade Rumors.

This will be far and away the best place to discuss the Rays.  There won’t be any shenanigans or tomfoolery and each forum will have its own moderator that will actually moderate as opposed to moderators that claim to enforce some code of conduct but really just rail on those that don’t subscribe their sycophancy.

So head on over and give it a shot. We know you guys will represent the Rays well.

DEVIL DOGS WEBTOPIA…

• First of all, we don’t know when this happened, but Roger Mooney has moved from the Bradenton Herald to the Tampa Tribune. Congrats to Mooney and nice pickup by the Trib. Here is Mooney’s take on the Rays and the Winter Meetings. [Tampa Tribune]
• Marc Topkin reports that Brian Shouse is unlikely to accept arbitration from the Rays. If he does decline and sign elsewhere, the Rays would have six picks before the third round in next year’s draft. [The Heater]
• We spoke with Will Carroll who told us that he was told last Wednesday that a Milton Bradley deal is “imminent,” but that he had no other details.
• Meanwhile Jon Heyman says Milton Bradley-for-Pat Burrell is “not close,” and that sounds believable. Keep in mind, just because there is only one hurdle remaining to get a deal done, it is usually the biggest hurdle and toughest to get past. [Twitter]
• Marc Topkin explains just how big that final hurdle could be. [St. Pete Times]
• Marc Topkin says the Rays don’t expect to make any big moves at this week’s winter meetings. [St. Pete Times]
• Several members of the Rays front office battled the elements last week to build a playground in one day. Afterwards, Stuart Sternberg won the wet t-shirt contest. [MLB]
• Jon Paul Morosi reports that the Rays are one of several teams that have contacted the Rangers about Nelson Cruz. That sounds nice, until we hear tomorrow what the Rangers would want. [MLB Trade Rumors]
• Meanwhile, Joe Frisaro says the Rays are interested in Marlins closer Matt Lindstrom. [Twitter]
• And Buster Olney says a Matt Lindstrom deal is “imminent.” [Twitter]
• Ted Keith writes about Evan Longoria’s effort to ramp up his off-season training by enrolling in the Athletes Performance Institute in Arizona. [SI.com]
• He has a new home, but David Chalk is still bringing joy to the masses with his 2009 All-Times Devil Rays advent calendar. [7th Inning Stache]
• We often refer to a player’s WAR and/or their WAR dollar value. Dave Cameron does an excellent job explaining exactly what that means. [Fangraphs]
• Mets Today weighs the pros and cons of adding Pat Burrell. [Mets Today]

Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports that the long-rumored deal of Pat Burrell for Milton Bradley is “still a strong possibility.” The sticking point appears to still be how much of Bradley’s contract the Cubs are willing to swallow.

Both Burrell and Bradley make $9 million next season. That is the final year of the deal for Burrell while Bradley is set to make $12 million in 2011. The hold up is likely how much the Rays would be responsible for the 2011 salary.

There have been several reports that the Rays will only do this deal on their terms. The Cubs on the other hand may be trying to be creative without meeting the Rays price. So while the two sides may be “close,” they may not actually be that close.

Of course, the big debate among Raysheads is whether the Rays should make this deal. Most seem to agree that Bradley represents a significant upgrade over Burrell on the field. The disagreement seems to lie in how much of a distraction and detriment Bradley’s well-documented temper-tantrums will be.

Make no mistake…There is much more to this trade than just Bradley’s bat and attitude. Let’s break it down…

PRO-TRADE

• Bradley is 18 months younger.
• Bradley has the better bat. In 2007 and 2008 Bradley posted OPS seasons of .947 and .999. Burrell’s best single season OPS was .920. Back in 2002. And Bradley can get on base. He has had 3 seasons with an OBP greater than .400. Burrell has done that once.
• Bradley can play the field if necessary.
• Bradley is a switch-hitter.
• Bradley might miss some games, but he will still out-produce Burrell even if he plays 30-40 fewer games.
• Burrell is not well-liked in the clubhouse either and had a much-publicized run-in with Carl Crawford last season.
• Bradley’s attitude problems are overrated. He seems to do fine in smaller markets. Joe Maddon is the perfect manager to keep him happy and in-check. And even if his attitude problem is a problem, there is still a net gain between the upgrade in production as compared to any cost to the team as a result of his attitude.
• Did you see Burrell play last year? That dude sucks.

ANTI-TRADE

• Much of Burrell’s problems in 2009 can be attributed to nagging injuries.
• He is only 33 years old and there is no reason to think that his career would just fall off the cliff that quickly.
• While Bradley was great in 2007 and 2008, his 2009 was not so great. He lost much of his power last year.  His OPS went from .999 in 2008 to .775, due in large part to a 170 point drop in SLG. His corresponding Isolated Power (ISO) went from .242 to .140 without a significant dropoff in flyball rate. In fact, his home runs per flyball were way off from 21.2% with Texas to 12.2% with the Cubs. That number was 18.3% in 2007 in pitcher-friendly parks in Oakland and San Diego.
• Playing the outfield is not necessary as the Rays need a DH. However, if it does become necessary (inter-league games, playoffs, injuries) Burrell’s shortcomings in the outfield are not much worse than Bradley. Bradley played 109 games in the outfield last season and posted a -4.1 UZR. In 2008, Burrell played 155 games in the outfield with a -4.3 UZR.
• Bradley is injury-prone. He has played 110 games three times in 10 seasons. Even in 2008 when he was primarily a DH for the Rangers, he missed 36 games. And keep in mind how cautious the Rays are with injuries. When was the last time a stint on the 15-day DL lasted only 15 days? Missing 30 games with other teams would probably translate to 45 days on the DL with the Rays.
• And while Bradley may give the Rays a better chance to win in 120 games he plays. His time on the DL puts the Rays in a big hole in the 40 games he will miss. Not only will an inferior player take his spot in the lineup, but there is also the cost of shuffling the roster and adding another player to the payroll.
• 2009 should be an embarrassment to Burrell and he should be motivated to come back in better shape and ready to prove that last season was a fluke.
• Burrell is a free agent at the end of the season and will be motivated to play for his next contract.
• Keeping Burrell means the Rays are not on the hook for any money in 2010 that can be spent elsewhere on the roster.
• Have you seen Bradley play? That dude is batshit crazy.

Our stance all along has been that Bradley WILL do something to annoy his teammates and piss off the fans. If you are cool with that, then fine. But once you get past the tantrums, there are other reasons to be concerned. Is he still a better option than Burrell? Maybe. But we don’t think it is as clear-cut as some want you to believe.

Just a few links this morning to clear out the inbox.

DEVIL DOGS WEBTOPIA…

• We have heard these exact sentiments previously, but Buster Olney is reporting that the Rays will only trade Pat Burrell to the Cubs for Milton Bradley if the deal is on their terms. In other words, there is no negotiation. Take it, or leave it. [MLB Trade Rumors]
• Tampa Bay Rays Fan did a point/counter-point with Dock of the Rays on the merits of trading for Milton Bradley. [Tampa Bay Rays Fan]
• Jorge Says No! looks at what it might take to sign Carl Crawford to an extension and suggests 3-years/$45 million with a raise to $13 million in 2010 and growing to $18 million in 2012. The post doesn’t think the Rays would be willing to go that high…We think the numbers are about right but we are not sure Crawford will want a deal so short. [Jorge Says No!]
• Strange. A writer for NESN.com (The Red Sox TV network) wrote a piece based on last week’s blog post at a New York website that claimed the Rays backed out of a handshake agreement with Carl Crawford to not pick up his option and that Crawford was “livid.” Most people with a clue picked up on the errors in the report and lack of fact-checking and now assume that the “source” for the piece was fictional. And yet, NESN.com just assumed it was true. [NESN.com]
• MLB.com is running a series of “Organizational Reviews” and the Rays are up. Did you hear? The Rays have depth of pitching talent. Imagine what Lisa Winston would have written before the Rays traded Edwin Jackson, Jason Hammel and Scott Kazmir. [MLB]
• For those that are still pissed the Rays traded Edwin Jackson: The Tigers are so determined to trade Jackson that “it’s like they want to give him away.” [MLB Trade Rumors]
• This is a fantasy baseball evaluation but still interesting topic: Jacoby Ellsbury or Carl Crawford? [Fantasy Baseball 365]
• Mark Fernandez, a senior VP with the Rays, returned to his elementary school to speak about his work in Major League Baseball. [Tampa Tribune]

If you missed it yesterday, the Rays added Desmond Jennings, Jeremy Hellickson and Alex Torres to the 40-man roster. The move left the team with exactly 40 players on the 40-man roster.

The biggest surprise was the absence of Aneury Rodriguez, the pitcher the Rays received from the Rockies for Jason Hammel. While Torres is more valuable than Rodriguez, we are surprised that the Rays are willing to risk losing Rodriguez in the Rule 5 Draft, when they have a seemingly expendable player on the 40-man roster like Elliot Johnson.

Rodriguez struggled in the first-half of the season and finished with a 4.50 ERA (4.69 FIP) in 142 innings with 111 strikeouts and 59 walks at double-A Montgomery. But he was much stronger in the second-half as he seemed to find a rhythm, regularly pitching into the 7th inning and allowing 2 runs or fewer.

DEVIL DOGS WEBTOPIA…

• Marc Topkin has read the new book by Vince Naimoli we discussed a few months ago, and breaks down a few of the more controversial sections. As we write this we can’t recall the name of the book, but we are pretty sure it should be titled, “I am bitter as hell and about 10 people will know it!” [St. Pete Times]
• We dropped this on Twitter a couple of days ago, but in case you are one of the silly people not following us on Twitter, a few more big names from the Rays minor league system have been granted free agency, including Winston Abreu, Calvin Medlock (came over in the Jorge Cantu trade), Carlos Hernandez, Jon Weber and Jason Perry.
• The City of St. Pete has responded to ABC’s recommendation for a new baseball stadium for the Rays. Lines are starting to be drawn in the sand, and as we have said previously, this is going to get ugly before it gets better. [St. Pete Times]
• Bob Nightengale of USA Today said yesterday that the Rays have become the “clear-cut favorite” to land Milton Bradley. It is unclear if he is basing that on inside information or if he is just speculating based on the news reports that are already out there. [Twitter]
• The Rays Party takes a look at Grant Balfour’s fastball. [The Rays Party]

Yesterday, Chris DeLuca of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that the Cubs are targeting the Rays as a trade partner in an effort to move Milton Bradley. DeLuca suggested the Cubs could take back Pat Burrell in the deal.

Today, Buster Olney’s sources say that a Bradley-Burrell deal is very unlikely citing our biggest question mark yesterday: Why would the Cubs want Burrell and Alfonso Soriano in the same outfield.

The Rays are talking with the Cubs about Milton Bradley, as reported in the Chicago Sun-Times on Thursday, but at this point, sources say, it’s very much a long shot that this deal gets worked out…If Burrell was, in fact, in this conversation — and to this point, it’s all speculation — then it would raise this question: What would the Cubs do with him? They certainly couldn’t play both him and Alfonso Soriano in the same outfield at the same time.

From a Rays perspective, this deal might be a good idea. But there are two teams involved and even if the Cubs are desperate to move Bradley, they still have to consider their 2010 roster. And right now, Burrell just does not look like a good fit.

Opening up the mailbag [ESPN]

DEVIL DOGS WEBTOPIA…

• In case you missed our take on a potential Milton Bradley-for-Pat Burrell deal, you can find it at this link. [RayIndex]
• Rob Neyer says we will be able to tell which MVP-voters have been paying attention by who has Ben Zobrist in the top-5 of their ballot. Neyer argues that Zorilla was not more valuable than Mauer, but he certainly belongs near the top of the list. [ESPN]
• The Rays Party noticed that Jim Hickey added a two-seam fastball to Wade Davis’ arsenal, a pitch he used a lot in his last 2 starts. [The Rays Party]
• Dock of the Rays makes a case that trading Jason Bartlett is not as crazy as it sounds. [Dock of the Rays]
• The Rays Party is not thrilled with the idea of the Cubs dumping a player on the Rays because of personality issues. [The Rays Party]
• Trop Talk would prefer that the Rays pass on Milton Bradley. [Trop Talk]
• Dock of the Rays explains why the Rays are so eager to rid themselves of Pat Burrell. [Dock of the Rays]

Chris DeLuca of the Chicago Sun-Times is reporting that the Cubs want to move Milton Bradley quickly, and that the Rays are the team they are targeting.

Sources say the Cubs have been pushing the Tampa Bay Rays for a quick deal. The Rays were one of Bradley’s top suitors last winter until the Cubs let the world know they had a three-year, $30 million offer on the table. The Rays loved Bradley’s on-base magic and manager Joe Maddon is so self-assured — to a fault — he believed he could handle Bradley’s unique personality as deftly as Texas Rangers manager Ron Washington did in 2008…Burrell, 32, is officially owed $9 million next season, though $2 million of his salary was paid in advance. Bradley is owed $9 million next season and $12 million in 2011. So the Cubs could repay the Rays some of the $2 million advanced to Burrell and pay some or all of the 2011 Bradley salary to get off the hook relatively cheaply.

If the Cubs are willing to give the Rays $13 million, this deal is going to happen, but there are still questions to be answered…

• The Cubs already have one terrible defensive outfielder in Alfonso Soriano (-11.6 UZR). Are they really going to take on Pat Burrell’s glove and put both players in the same outfield?
• Can Bradley stay healthy? In 9 seasons, Bradley has missed at least a month’s worth of games 8 times. Even as the Rangers most-days DH in 2008, he still missed 36 games. And 15 days on the DL for most teams is about 25 with the Rays. They never let a player come back at anything less than 100%.
• If Joe Maddon is such a perfect manager for Bradley-types, then why did he have so many problems with Delmon Young and Elijah Dukes?
• If Bradley is better suited to play for a small-market team, then why were the Rangers recently so quick to dismiss the idea of bringing Bradley back? Oh yeah.

Of course, if this trade is possible, it will ultimately come down to money. The Rays are in no mood to add payroll. So if the Cubs want to send Bradley south, they will have to make up the difference between what Burrell is owed ($9 million) and what Bradley is owed ($21 million).

We love the idea of Bradley’s bat in the Rays’ lineup at half the cost of Burrell. But if the Rays want that great wOBA and OPS, we all better be prepared for at least one extended stay on the DL and at least one incident during the season that will make us all shake our heads in disgust.

Cubs seek ‘Ray’ of hope in Milton Bradley fiasco [Chicago Sun-Times]

The GBT – The Good, The Bad and The Telling sandwich, where The Bad is nice and lean and the The Telling is ripe.

click above image for boxscore

THE GOOD: Death by Singles. The Rays scored 7 runs in the 8th and 9th on 6 singles, 3 walks, a hit by pitch and scored the go ahead run on a Fernando Perez safety squeeze. Again, why teams don’t have all of their infielders 10 feet from home plate when Perez is batting left-handed is beyond us, but we’ll take it…The New Bucs. Or is it The Old Devil Rays? Either way, the Rays are still not the worst team in the Bay Area.

THE BAD: David Price. 94 pitches in 5 innings. Only 58 for strikes. Not his best day… Randy Choate. After scoring 3 in the top of the 8th to pull within 2, Choate can’t give up a home run in the bottom of the 8th. Just can’t happen. That is the sort of the thing that will usually kill a team’s hope. And to think he got the Win for that effort is sad…Improbable And Rare. The Rays rallied from down 3 in the 9th for the win. How many times did they do something similar in ’08? Once a week? Once every 2 weeks? This year, we can probably count them on one hand that is missing a couple of fingers…That’s Gross. As Gabe Gross goes, so go the Rays? Gross went 0-3 and is now 3-31 (.097) in September.

THE TELLING: With 7 games remaining, the Rays need only finish 3-4 for a winning record…The loss by the Rangers moved the Red Sox one win or one Rangers loss away from clinching at least a tie for the AL Wild Card…Next up for the Rays is Baltimore, who just lost their 10th consecutive game. Who was the last team to lose to the Orioles? If you answered the Rays, you win!

SUNBURST PLAYER OF THE GAME: Ben Zobrist.

DEVIL DOGS WEBTOPIA…

• David Price had Right Guard caked on his forearm? Not sure we can blame the umpires for making him wipe it off. It’s been a while since we had anatomy, but the forearm is not exactly a hotbed for sweat glands. [Tampa Tribune]
• JP Howell has been shut down for the season. [St. Pete Times]
• Marc Topkin looks at which options the team might not pick up this off-season, who might be non-tendered and who could be traded. [St. Pete Times]
• Marc Lancaster looks at some moves the Rays could make this off-season, noting that the bullpen is the top priority. He also suggests that the Rays could choose to keep Gregg Zaun and non-tender (essentially release) Dioner Navarro. [Tampa Tribune]
• Bruce Levine says the Rays are “very interested” in trading for Milton Bradley and suggests Pat Burrell could be part of the deal. [ESPN]
• Ken Rosenthal says the Rays will likely look to see what they can get for BJ Upton this winter, but says they will only move him if it is a good deal…Also, Rosenthal feels the Rays will be one of the clubs interested in trading for Milton Bradley. [MLB Trade Rumors]
• Jayson Stark spoke with a scout that is very high on Wade Davis (scroll to the bottom). [ESPN]
• The Hardball Times compares Ben Zobrist and Chase Utley. [The Hardball Times]
• Joe Maddon does not think there will be any changes to the coaching staff for next season, but will meet with each of his coaches next week. [MLB]
• The Rays Party picked up on a change David Price made to his approach on the mound. [The Rays Party]
• Baseball America tabbed Wilking Rodriguez as the 3rd best prospect in the short-season Appalachian League. [Baseball America]

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/rays/tampa-bay-rays-will-change-next-season-but-how-much/1038791The GBT – The Good, The Bad and The Telling sandwich, where The Bad is nice and lean and the The Telling is ripe.

click above image for boxscore

THE GOOD: BJ Upton. Upton is the Nicolas Cage of the Rays. Most of the time he “National Treasure,” but every now and again he gives us “Raising Arizona.” Last night it was 3 RBI, including a 2-run single in the 8th for the lead and then a leaping catch at the wall to end the game in the 9th…Ben Zobrist. Zorilla kept the M’s lead at just 1 when he threw out a runner at home to end the 7th…Wade Davis. Not really good, but he wasn’t bad either. He did give up 4 runs (2 earned) in 5.2 innings, but all 7 of the hits were singles and he walked only 1 batter while striking out 6. In triple-A this year, Big Dub seemed to lose some of his dominance striking out only 7.9 per 9 innings. However, that number is back up to 10.4 in the big leagues…Leading Off. Rays hitters were on base in 4 of the 8 innings. Two of those runners scored.

THE BAD: Situational Nonhitting. We get tired of typing it, but this team just has no idea how to get a runner home from third base and less than 2 outs. Last night it was second and third with no outs in the 2nd. A pop out, fly ball and strikeout kept the Rays from scoring…Bottom of the Order. They teamed up for a nice caught stealing in the 3rd but Reid Brignac and Dioner Navarro went a combined 1-8 with 3 strikeouts and 11 runners left on base.

THE TELLING: We get on BJ Upton from time to time. OK. We get on his case a lot. He makes a lot of mental errors on the basepaths and let’s face it, injuries or not, he has underachieved the past two seasons. But we never accuse Upton of loafing. And the catch to end the game last night was the reason why. Watching it live, it looked so easy. It almost looked like he may have exaggerated the need to leap and made it look more dramatic than it had to be. Then we watched the replay and saw exactly how high Upton jumped for the ball (see above). He makes it look so easy. He’ll continue to anger us, but not because he doesn’t give max effort.

SUNBURST PLAYER OF THE GAME: BJ Upton

DEVIL DOGS WEBTOPIA…

• John Romano looks at how the Rays roster may change next season. A few of the highlights: Romano calls BJ Upton one of the only “untouchables” in the lineup. Carl Crawford, Jason Bartlett and Carlos Pena are possible trade pieces. Romano suggests trading Pat Burrell for Milton Bradley. [St. Pete Times]
• Rays Revolutionary says you should brace yourselves for a 2010 roster with BJ Upton in center and somebody other than Carl Crawford in left. [Rays Revolutionary]

Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe feels the Rays will add one of Jason Giambi, Milton Bradley, Pat Burrell or Adam Dunn.

Seems as if the prices for these guys are dropping rapidly, and the Rays might be able to add a pretty good hitter to replace Cliff Floyd and/or Rocco Baldelli.

It may seem that way on the surface, but some of these pieces are going to start falling very quickly. To no surprise, we are now hearing that the A’s and Giambi will soon be talking contract. And when push comes to shove, we feel the Cubs won’t let Bradley get away. Bradley may prefer the situation in St. Pete, but at some point the Cubs offer will be too much money to leave on the table.

Of course, that still leaves Burrell and Dunn, both of whom would provide the “impact bat” Andrew Friedman is seeking. But other teams like the Yankees and Angels may become interested if they fail to land either Mark Teixeira or Manny Ramirez. This could force the Rays to become more active in their pursuit of Burrell or Dunn.

And now Jon Heyman is reporting that the Rays and Burrell “are talking” and Heyman calls Burrell a “real possibility” for the Rays.

Burrell originally sought a three-year deal, but in a tough outfield/DH market he might have to settle for a one-year deal. Burrell’s outfield defense has slipped in recent years, but the Rays are mostly looking for offense.

Heyman also adds Bobby Abreu, Ken Griffey and Garret Anderson to the list of targets for the Rays, although this group is clearly “plan B.”

So if Burrell could stand to make more money from playoff-caliber teams like the Angels and Yankees, then why talk to the Rays now? Why not wait? Because the worst-case scenario may scare Burrell.

What if the Angels don’t want Burrell and the Yankees get Manny? What if Giambi signs a deal with the A’s for only $8-9 million, thus lowering an already low bar? And what if the Rays instead sign a Dunn or Griffey, taking a potent offense that will make a DH look very good in 2009, out of the bidding? If this scenario plays-out, Burrell could be forced to sign with a second-division team with a weak offense that will hurt his numbers in 2009 and hurt his chances of making a big score in next season’s free agent market. And he will have to sign for less than he could get from the Rays now.

While we liked the idea of Giambi or Bradley in a Rays’ uniform, we never thought it was a real possibility. But with the current state of the market, Pat Burrell and the Rays could be a marriage of convenience for both sides.

It’s the offseason of hope [Boston Globe]
A’s To Talk Contract With Giambi Soon [MLB Trade Rumors]
Burrell could fill Rays’ DH need [SI.com]

DEVIL DOGS WEBTOPIA…

• It is not in our nature to be mysterious, but we can’t talk about it and we can’t talk about why. [Joe Bucs Fan]
  
• Andrew Friedman says the Rays would like to improve their performance against lefties, but will not do it at the expense of hitting righties who account for 70-75% of the games over the course of a season. [Tampa Tribune]
  
• Rays Digest takes a look at the middle infielders in the Rays’ system. [Rays Digest]
• Rays Prospects takes a closer look at the Columbus Catfish hitters from last season. [Rays Prospects]
• The Examiner takes a look back at the Rays’ game of the year. [The Examiner]
• Rays Prospects has the winter league stats updated through last Thursday. [Rays Prospects]