The Reds have found the starting pitcher they were looking for and paid a hefty ransom for him. Unfortunately, the trade wasn’t with the Rays.

The Reds acquired Mat Latos from the Padres. And to make matters worse, Yonder Alonso and Yasmani Grandal, were two of the four players sent to San Diego. The Padres also received Edinson Volquez and Brad Boxberger.

On first-look, it might seem that the Padres huge haul would be good news for what the Rays could expect in a trade for one of their young, talented starting pitchers. But this deal could also hurt the Rays. So far, the Reds were the only team that was aggressively shopping for a starting pitcher. And they may have been the only team willing to pay such a huge ransom. If that’s the case, the Rays may now have a more difficult time finding a team to pay the price being asked.

Now that the Reds no longer need a starting pitcher, attention now turns to the Padres sudden need for a big league pitcher and their new-found depth at first base. And already we are hearing that the Rays are one of two teams that have talked to the Padres about Anthony Rizzo, a 21-year old first baseman with the Padres. In 49 games with San Diego in 2011, Rizzo hit .141 with a .281 OBP. In 93 triple-A games, he hit .331 with 26 home runs.

However, the Cubs are the other team interested in Rizzo, and the Padres may be more interested in Matt Garza. And if the Rays are pushing Wade Davis, there might not be a good fit, and deal may not be likely.

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38 Comments

  1. Joe says:

    This is what I was raising at the end of the other piece. The irony of Garza being used against the Rays in a trade bait situation and Theo wanting to reacquire Rizzo again, seems too tailor made for Chicago and San Diego to be dance partners.

    But 2 years of Garza at no less than $16 million vs. 6 years of Davis? If I were SD, I would look at the Rays closer than the Padres? But that is me.

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  2. RedBull says:

    Davis is going to fit better in San Diego because they're trying to rebuild and lower their payroll. Garza is obviously better, but is going to be expensive. I think our chances are better for Rizzo than the Cubs, hands down.

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  3. Joe says:

    If SD thinks that 2 years of Garza, in a WINDOW of OPPORTUNITY they are not in to compete vs 6 years of Davis is a better option, then Friedman is in trouble and they are in cahoots with each other.

    SD is in a rebuilding mode? If so, why would they consider Garza? Makes no sense, because they should have kept Latos to begin with? Wade Davis and Rizzo, in a multiplayer deal to me is a no brainer?

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    • RedBull says:

      Do you think San Diego is a contender? Because they sure don't look like one. I think the 6 years of Davis will be much better than the 2 of Garza. Davis would likely flourish in that pitcher-friendly ballpark, as most do...and Garza is going to be very expensive and might not be that much better than Davis over the next couple years.

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  4. Joe says:

    That is what I am saying!! I don't get why Jim Bowden thinks he can push and navigate a trade? If San Diego is in for a longer haul, the appropriate trade partner is the Rays. If they think they can sign Garza for $60-75 million, and DOUBLE what Davis is being paid and older, then you sign Garza.

    I don't think Byrnes is a bad guy. It would be sad and an opportunity wasted if Garza is traded for Rizzo because the Rays CLEARLY are the better partner for SD. SD is NOT a contender right now and the Latos trade proves it.

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  5. Joe says:

    It's amusing how the Reds actually very possibly helped us by making this trade. Now our chances at getting a young 1B for Neimann or Davis have shot up and the Shields rumors should officially die now.

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    • Nathan says:

      Joe, helped us? I'm not so sure SD gives up Rizzo for one of those pitchers. He was the centerpiece of the Adrian Gonzalez trade with the Red Sox. I don't know that they can part with him for a #4 starter. And I haven't heard much buzz on ANY other team having a stud 1B they want to unload. I think AF missed the boat on the Reds deal. We could've gotten an above average 1B and C along with a strong bullpen arm, along with payroll relief for dealing Sheilds. I love the guy, but if we're selling high, then we need to actually sell, no? The inflated value of a stock does no good if you just sit on it.

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      • Joe says:

        Padres GM has already said they might trade Rizzo as he is not happy about heading to AAA (and being blocked by a THIRD young 1B). Rosenthal was tweeting how the Rays are already calling and the only other team known to be interested is the Cubs. We emptied that Cubs farm system and Padres don't want a Garza type. Expensive and under control for only 2 more years.

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      • brianknowsbest says:

        what would make you think they would of offered the same deal for shields, latos is a young top of the rotation guy. Although Shields is great, he offers 2 more years of control, and last year although a great year, was his first above average year since 2008.

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        • Joe says:

          Why are the Rays so hesitant to flip Shields then?

          This is part of the problem, MARC TOPKIN!! Yes, MARC, I am calling you out!! We can't have an IDEA how the front office thinks?! There are two Joe's in this piece and I am the one that talked about Jim Bowden.

          My thing is the Rays as I have said, have to prove to everyone they are smarter than everyone. I am tired of the revolving door at 1B, let's address it permanently, whether it be Prince Fielder or Anthony Rizzo. Ok, Kotch comes back for one more year, so ok, ho hum?! We are satisfied with playing this 2% BS crap, or does Stu want to break out his cape and let this team DEAL!

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          • Tom says:

            You are blaming Marc Topkin for the fact the Rays will not tell him exactly what it would take to get James Shields?

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          • Joe says:

            We aren't even allowed to think along or play along? It's part of the Rays perceived "infallibility" of our front office.

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          • Tom says:

            Who says the Rays Front Office is infallible? I have seen them take heat for: Signing Burrell, Manny, and Damon, trading for Shoppach and releasing Cory Wade among other moves.

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  6. RedBull says:

    I think the Rays felt that if they were going to give up Shields, then they wanted a proven major league stud...in the Reds case, that would mean Votto. Right now, the Rays might be the favorite for the AL East simply because our pitching and defense reign supreme. Our stable of thoroughbreds is something of high value, and should be treated as such. Friedman knows we need more pop, and he will get it for us. My guess is that it will be either Rizzo, Trumbo, or Morales...and don't sleep on the Mets eventually parting with Ike Davis...if we offered Davis, Barnese and Torres, they'd start listening quick.

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    • Joe says:

      Bull, I LOVE how you are thinking, but Votto, and this is from Cot's, contract is as follows:

      3 years/$38M (2011-13)

      signed extension with Cincinnati 1/17/11

      $6M signing bonus ($2.5M on signing, $1.5M in 2012, $2M in 2013)
      11:$5.5M, 12:$9.5M, 13:$17M

      The money is too high on the back end for the Rays. Of course the Rays could EASILY absorb this, but basically you are creating a window if you get Votto. I like the trade and I think its worth the gamble because in 3 years, Taylor Guerreri will be ready for the bigs.

      I don't think the Rays are at all the favorite in the division, sorry. I would love to see a cornerstone 1-2 punch with Longoria, and Pena was the closest thing to that. I admire your line of thought, but the Rays sorry, are just a bit too cheap to think real big.

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  7. RedBull says:

    I was just trying to explain why the Rays didn't take that type of deal for Shields...for one, we don't know if it was offered...two, the Rays deserve to get a top-notch stud for Shields instead of prospects. Everything that I've heard I is that if you want Shields, then it will take a proven stud in the majors to make it happen. Stu, while being conservative with the money, hasn't said he won't go for it this year. And the reason he's being conservative is because he's come to realize that even if he ups the payroll to $70 mill, no one goes to the games...and his team is extremely competitive while around $50 mill...so, we can call him cheap all day, but we're winning with the best players instead of the most expensive...this guy isn't a brilliant business man for no reason! Don't spend an extra $20 million for the same results, because its not good business. He may be stingy with his money right now, but we've gone to the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years. And the one year we didn't go, we upped our payroll to over $70 mill...the proof is in the pudding!

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    • Joe says:

      Too brilliant, RB, and that's the problem. We need to care how Stu owns the team? I respect this site too much to really tell you what I REALLY think of Stu Sternberg, and this isn't what this piece is about.

      It's about the World Series. He himself has said meaningful September games. To me, there is a difference. But he would rather trash you and me, and again, that's not where this piece is going.

      Shields will NEVER be more valuable than what he is now, so I don't get dealt, why he wasn't dealt, considering Stu's own quote that payroll would remain about the same as last year. I don't see where it adds up, so payroll goes up? It's not a "fun" team.

      I will say one thing about Stu, and maybe one day Cork will write a piece about it, Stu's "perception" amongst fans has taken a huge hit. How much of that is deliberate is anyone's guess, but I would love it analyzed.

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      • Tom says:

        Joe,

        You have posted on this site many times about how much you hate Stu Sternberg, are you saying all this time you have been holding back?

        You cannot get to the World Series unless you play meaningful games in September. The Rays have been an excellent team for the past 4 seasons.

        I do not understand why they "have" to trade Shields now because he will never be more valuable. Longoria will also NEVER be more valuable then he is now should we trade him? What about Zobrist? Matt Kemp will NEVER be more valuable than he is now should the Dodgers trade him?

        I also do not understand how you can say they are not a fun team. I guess you were not at game 162, I have been following baseball since 1977 and I can count on one hand how many games were more fun than that one. Yeah the Rays comes back from 8 games down in September to catch the hated Red Sox, no fun there. Maybe you should root for the Pirates or the Royals, I am sure they must feel bad for us poor Ray's fans.

        I agree with you that Stu's perception among fans has taken a huge hit. He has opened his mouth and made some inappropriate comments. That is business he is going to try and get the best deal he can on a stadium that is the way these things work.

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        • pete says:

          Amen.

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        • Joe says:

          Actually, I have been, and its because I respect great people like yourself, Cork and other bloggers who don't deserve to be bored by someone's "vendetta." It's not healthy one, and its not fair for others who simply enjoy the Rays for different reasons and priorities than me. And I respect you for it.

          And you remind me as you have been watching for as long as I have been alive. I don't know if Stu wants more than meaningful September games, so I don't want to be. Of course, the competitor in him, you would hope would shine through.

          I stand by and say this isn't a fun team to watch. I don't care if I am tarred or feathered, but so many lulls are worse than the peaks are high.

          I am coming from a point where the Rays have NEVER had a long term 1B solution. So why be chumps? Because we the fans are chumps? Is it CHEAPER to pay Kotch and see whatever he does and try the same thing with someone else next year? It's NOT FUN. It's not fun watching this team get nearly no hit on a weekly basis. This team's lows it "seems" is lower than the team's highs. Uhhhhh, is what I say sometimes. Even in the past year and a half, they want to "push" Sam Fuld a great, GREAT kid just because he was part of a GREAT TRADE, so it looks the front office look smart!! And guys like Fuld are "fun" but in the end, they got the BEST part of his entire career in one half of a season.

          I am tired of the Rays wanting to be "smart" I wish they were more take no prisoners with their approach, yet know that MONEY isn't an OBSTACLE, its a REALITY of doing business in this industry

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          • pete says:

            Being smart is why the Rays have been in the playoffs 3 of 4 years and turned around a franchise that was the laughing stock of baseball for 10 years. Throwing money at washed up "big name" players didn't work under Namoli.

            Blaming the Owners for finally putting a winning product on the field is ridiculous. This front office is the BEST in baseball by a wide margin and you bitch about the beat writers not having a clue ... well it's because Andrew Friedman doesn't want them or anyone else to have a clue as to what he is thinking.

            If winning is boring you then GO HOME. Personally i've been a season ticket holder since day 1 and been watching baseball since my earliest memories and i've never been so happy to be a fan of this team or any team.

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          • Drew says:

            I think what he meant to say is we all know the front office can do at least a little bit better. At least 1/5 of the team last year had no reason to see extended time on a big league roster. In the end, they made the playoffs. If you're happy with that every year, then good for you. I want rings.

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          • pete says:

            Drew , you can't get rings without getting into the playoffs. The Cubs spend tons of money. Hows that been working out? Winning the World Series takes quite a bit of luck. The last 2 winners NOBODY has seen coming.

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  8. Joe says:

    You know who I want? That Cuban OF'er. Shock the world, Rays.

    Hell, shock us.

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  9. RedBull says:

    Just to settle the Shields trading talk, given what teams have been giving up for big-time pitching, the Rays will require a hefty haul for Shields. For instance, if the Royals were to call about Shields, the Rays will probably begin the discussion with Hosmer...not saying KC would do that, but that is just an example. Latos, while he's very young with a ton of potential, isn't coming off a Cy Young-caliber year like James Shields...so, Friedman should absolutely command a kings ransom for Shields! And a kings ransom should include at least one proven major league commodity, among other top prospects.

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  10. Jared says:

    Many pitchers have had their best years in their early thirties. Shields has finally reached his potential. While it is plausible that Shields will regress next season, it is also completely likely that he will end this next season withatleast 15 wins a 3-3.5 era and 200+ k's I'm sure Ken Rosenthal would agree. With that said it is also possible that Shields can get injured. I personally believe that holding onto Shields and Upton is the best possible scenario for the season. When July comes around if they can put together a good package for a bat then thats the time to do it. The market for a trade is drying up and San Diego isn't going to trade Rizzo for Davis. If you want Rizzo, then you need to be prepared to lose Hellickson. And even though some "critics" want to say Hellickson's numbers weren't as good this year as last year, then I sugeest you review that it was his first full season in the pros, batters had a lot more opportunities to prepare themselves for Hellickson's stuff, Hellickson still put up fantastic numbers, AND WON ROOKIE OF THE YEAR! Darvish will be with the Rangers so Moreland is off the table. That was the most likely situation for us to get a 1b. Latos killed the Reds. The Royals don't have enough to offer for anyone. The Padres will not settle for Davis. The Blue Jays will not go within the devision. It's time for the Rays to lower the asking price for Davis and go into the season with Price, Shields, Hellickson, Moore, and Nieman as the rotation in that order. And try to trade an Upton/Cobb or Torres trade at the deadline for a bat. Beltran is not going to happen. With our pitching and defense Kotchman and Damon will be just fine. Jennings will have a full season with the Rays. I will say though I expect a drop-off from Jennings due to the statistics always favor a sophmore slump. Regardless I have went on a rant and my train of thought has completely been derailed. I will end it at that.

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  11. Joe says:

    As far as having to give up Hellickson, no we don't. Rizzo was openly upset about them adding yet another young 1B. At least with Blanks actually handling the OF decently and Guzman probably playing way over his head, Rizzo had to know he would get a real shot again soon but Yonder officialy blocks him. I don't know if he demanded a trade but the next day, Padres GM said that its very possible they trade him. Rosenthal and other writers I have read actually think the Padres would add something to Rizzo to get Davis because they dont need 4 1B and Davis is under control for another 6 years. I would see if we can get Gregerson. Just to fill that DH hole and with this rotation, I think it's our 2nd most talented team ever, depends what Friedman trades for, but it will hard to top the talent level of the 2010 team.

    The pen which at the start of last offseason was....Andy Sonnanstine now looks like this: Farnsworth, Peralta, McGee, Gomes, Howell (he will bounce way back), Badenhop (GB machine with out MIF? what a great under the radar pick up he was) and then there is 1 spot for either a trade (Gregerson, Bailey, etc), a signing(Zumaya, Wuertz...) or a big time ST battle between: Leuke, Ramos, De La Rosa, Neimann? (Joe does love Cobb..), Torres and Matt Bush all for 1 spot. I kinda like the idea of Neimann in the pen, he cant last long in games or seasons so maybe less work will *gasp* keep him healthy all season. Should also pump up his fastball and give that curve more bite.

    I just typed a lot to come to same conclusion, we need a bat, we might need 2 but the 13 guys that will make up this pitching staff will be unbelievable and hey by the way Jennings is up for a full season and Upton is playing for a contract.

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  12. RedBull says:

    In thinking about a trade with the Padres for Rizzo, I think the Rays will be creative so they can build up the value of the trade. What I mean is that Davis for Rizzo straight up won't happen. If we want Rizzo, Friedman will probably want someone else so that he can help build value for the deal. This is where I think we can get Hundley from them. For Rizzo and Hundley, I figure the offer could be Davis, Barnese, Colome and Nevin Ashley. I think it's reasonable, and everybody wins in the deal.
    But if the Rays are really looking for a dance partner, the Mets have Ike Davis. If you offer up Wade Davis, Nick Barnese, and Torres, then they might be willing to make something happen.

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    • Nathan says:

      Help me understand why we would give up 3 pitchers for Ike Davis. Pitching is what teams want and what teams need. We should be able to deal Wade Davis, a proven #3/#4 starter under team control for 6 years, for a top 1B prospect. Both Rizzo and Ike Davis are still "prospects".

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    • ttnorm says:

      Why is the assumption that Rizzo will go? The SD front office has less invested in Alonso and probably thinks Rizzo is better

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    • MJ says:

      1. No way the Rays give away 3 pitchers of that caliber/quality/value for Rizzo. Pads would take that instantly I would imagine.
      2. I am not convinced they want to keep Yonder over Rizzo.

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  13. ttnorm says:

    Neimann for Alonso, who hangs up first?

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  14. Brianknowsbest says:

    Ike Davis had a serious injury last year. I'd be hesitant to send just Wade Davis at this point.

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  15. RedBull says:

    The reason we might have to give up more is because none of the guys I mentioned project as top of the rotation starters...they all project as 3-5 types. And Ike Davis is not a prospect...he's got over a year in the bigs, and has a very bright future as a middle of the order hitter. Sometimes to get what you want and need, you have to give up more than you might think.

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    • MJ says:

      a true number 3 starter is valuable. Giving away 3 potential #3 starters is a a good amount for an Ike Davis imo.

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    • Joe says:

      I actually am in love with the idea of Torres as a back end RP, him and McGee slamming doors shut on games but for Ike Davis? I'll get over my man crush on Torres.

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