[THE HANGOVER] The One Where We Discuss Evil Lessers, The Duke To The Cubs And Godzilla
Andy Sonnanstine, Carl Crawford, Hideki Matsui, Pat Burrell November 13th. 2009, 8:50am
A situation that Raysheads should watch closely in the next couple of weeks is the negotiations between Johnny Damon and the Yankees. The Yankees want Damon back on a one-year deal. This is important because the 2011 class of free agent outfielders is much more enticing than this year’s. And next year’s free agent class could be led by Carl Crawford.
Don’t think the Yankees wouldn’t love to have CC as the “Next Great Yankees Outfielder.”
If we have the choice between trading Crawford now, to a team like the Giants, or watching CC roam LF for the Yankees 19 times a season against the Rays over the next 7 seasons, we are calling Brian Sabean.
DEVIL DOGS WEBTOPIA…
- We love this quote from an “industry official” about the Mets’ reluctance to go after Pat Burrell due to his poor glove: The official rolled his eyes and said, “Just lift him late in the game.” Because apparently bad defense only gives up runs late in games. [Newsday]
- Dock of the Rays is hoping the Rays and the Cubs can narrow the gap on a Milton Bradley for Pat Burrell deal and wonders if the Cubs will eat more of Bradley’s contract if the Rays throw in Andy Sonnanstine. [Dock of the Rays]
- Might the Rays look into Hideki Matsui as DH if they can trade Pat Burrell? [NPB Tracker]
- Making the case for Matt Joyce to be the everyday right fielder. [Scribbling the Majors]
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[...] will be eligible for arbitration if the Mets tender them contracts, says Bart Hubbuch. -Rays Index has an article about Johnny Damon and other Tampa Bay links and how the Yankees may only want Damon [...]
how much would Matsui make? I think we all would love to move burrell and insert Matsui, but the money has to work.
You know, I just started thinking about it, and, I know Burrell’s defense is bad, but he did play LF pretty much every day for the champion* Phillies team just over a year ago. Just sayin’
He did and actually looking at his defensive metrics, he wasn’t terrible in ’08. He was terrible in ’06 and ’07. Still, he has always hit well enough so that he was a positive contributor.
The Mets though are a little different. CitiField might have the biggest OF outside of Coors. Many think the Mets need at least one center fielder playing a corner OF position. Burrell is the worst thing the Mets could do.
But Burrell isn’t aging exactly well for those of us who watched him “run” on his tippy toes all season, the Trop turf is too fast, we already have a pretty good left fielder — he’ll never see the outfield in a Rays uniform. He needs to go; Bradley is crazy, but you get him and the money is equal, it is an unqualified theivery on the Rays part. They have to do it. I mean taking Sonny and Pat No Bat all in one fell swoop? I have to be dreaming. . .
Good point about Citi Field Prof., and Gus I wasn’t saying I thought he should play LF for us, but rather that I didn’t think it was such a crazy notion that he could play LF for another team in the NL. I just wanted to point out that he’s done it in the past and it wasn’t as big a catastrophe as everyone tends to make it out to be.
And one more thing- Does it really matter who we trade CC to? Isn’t he still going to be a FA after this season no matter what? Say the Giants get him right now, they’re still going to have to compete with the Yanks pocket book come the off season right?
Yes, indeed. But I think the general feeling is that anybody that trades for CC now is going to try to sign him longterm. It will be different in July when somebody might just be looking for a rental.
Thats exactly why CC has to sign a long term contract NOW…. no matter what the cost ( could be a bargain with Rays)…then if things get tough (money ect) he can be unloaded…. and a team knows exactly what they will be paying….everybody wins….whats so hard about this shit!
Get him under long term contract NOW…see what happens….. later!
Oh I forgot…
Pat Burrell……old, fat, can’t run, can’t field, hits a few home runs in past, but strikes out for no bat avg…..who signed this guy????
Nobody with the Phillies after winning WS….
No matter how hard it will be to see CC in a Sox/Yanks jersey, if the temptation of signing him keeps both of them away from signing Matt Holliday, it will be a good thing in the future for our organization. Holliday is a better player than Crawford and will make one of them better than if they had CC.
Matt Holliday is a better HITTER than CC, nobody in the MLB right now is an overall better left fielder than CC is, just take that as fact because it is. We sign holliday, and he gets 20-30 homeruns but he sucks up the place fielding in left field, while the yanks or sox have CC hitting 15-20 homeruns a year, stealing 30-60 bases a year, hitting doubles and tripples like its a video game, and robbing homeruns left and right, while the Rays are stuck with a guy like Burrell is now hit a few homeruns, but suck at fielding. Last I checked having aybar and burrell hitting a few homeruns and sucking at fielding is more than enough. I’ll take CC only getting 15-20 homeruns a year over holliday getting 30+ a year when i know CC will make up for lack of power in fielding and speed on the bases, because small ball, and good fielding will win you more games than bad fielding and homerun hitting overall. I think we all saw the left field debacle Holliday was in the playoffs for St. Louis this past post season dropping routine flyballs that Pat Burrell could catch, and if he does that idc if he hitts 150 homeruns a year I dont want him on my team, bad defense will hurt you more than a “lack” of power at bat. The Rays have Longo and Zobrist, and Pena three power guys, Burrell will most likely rebound based on his career numbers, Joyce will be up, and you have sean Rodriguez from LA on the bench, that is more than enough power bats in the lineup we have no need for holliday and his lack of fielding at any point.
Hollidays last 3 years WAR19.8, Craws three best career years WAR- 15.1, Craw is worth a little less than a win more in the field but Holliday is still way above average a +7 in the field over his career which is nothing to sneeze at. Hollidays career wOBA-400 Crawfords-.343, fangraphs wOBA includes steals (which i’m using) in its analysis as well, so while one dominates with defense and a middle of the pack bat, the other has a hall of fame bat with above avg. D, there is no argument who is the better player.
you can use stats all you want, but stats arent everything, remember there are three kinds of lies; they are lies, damn lies, and stats. On paper with STATS the Rays were a championship team, but on the field they weren’t. So you can throw a bunch of meaningless stats in the mix and say holliday is a better player, im going on what ive seen. Holliday may get hall of fame numbers at the plate, as of now he doesn’t, and CC may as well. CC is a better all around player than holliday, with CC you never worry about his defense. With the playoff debacle holliday was in left field id worry bout his defense every time he was out there, we know he can hit but so can manny ramirez. Power is all well and good yes and holliday has that, but CC doesnt have all the power but is nothing to sneeze at at bat either, clutch hits, league leading triples and doubles numbers, or atleast up near the lead in the league, and not to mention what he does for longo or whoever is behind him in the order when CC gets on base, the pitcher is always worried CC is gonna steal and changes his game to keep CC on 1st, giving longo better pitches to hit, holliday gets on first and ya nobody worries about him stealing. CC doesnt have the power but he makes the guys around him better with his glove and his speed, and ill take that over 30+ homeruns a year any day. All you have to do is watch ESPN and even they say that CC is the best left fielder in the MLB, so the Yanks or sox can have at holliday all they want, not like the Rays could get him anyway even if we gave the yanks CC, theyd still go after holliday and give him 200+ million, so take what we have now in CC and extend his contract, because whether they want holliday or not we wont get him if the yanks are involved.
If you want to bring up a sample of less than 5 games to say Holliday is a bad fielder, that’s not accurate. He has played six years of above average defense while putting up hall of fame batting numbers, Crawford was the second most valuable left fielder in baseball to Holliday last year, about 15th a year ago (Holliday second to Man Ram), sixth in ’07 (Holliday 1st), Crawford is about the third or forth best LF’er in baseball (Ramirez, Holliday, Bay-maybe ahead of him). You can disagree with stats all you want, but over the last three years in nearly 500 games, Holliday has been far superior to Crawford, and who is to say his knee problems will not flare up again on our turf if we give him a 4-5 year extension. I’m not arguing against signing CC long term, just that if you look at thousands of at bats and thousands of innings in the field combined Holliday is with out a doubt better than CC and would help our opponents more than either of them having CC. But can use a 3 game sample size of bad defense and make bad assumptions off of 27 innings of viewing a player in lieu of viewing his 3700PA’S as an ample measurement of his ability. I’ve watched the NL and AL the entire time Holliday and Crawford have been in the majors, I don’t know about you, and he is without a doubt a superior player to our own LF’er. Stop using small sample sizes to draw exact conclusions, it’s dumb, it will give you bad results, and is not productive to any debate.